With the recent decision by Rick Santorum to bow out of the competition, Mitt Romney is now the clear frontrunner for the nomination by the Republican Party in the quest to unseat President Obama in November 2012, barring something highly unorthodox occurring between now and the GOP Convention in Tampa Bay, Florida in August. (Ya just never know!)
While much has been discussed about the religious roots of the numerous presidential candidates, the time has arrived to have a conversation about religion and politics with respect to Romney’s faith – Mormonism. Romney has avoided this like the plague, snapping at those who dare to ask him about his beliefs, squirming when it comes up or overtly diverting the topic entirely. This discussion is now unavoidable.
It is no mystery that Willard Mitt Romney is a generational Mormon, (7th generation to be exact) but what does that mean – politically? My guest writer, Susan Cardoza, gives a provocative introduction to the religio-political “noise” going on in the background of our first Mormon presidential Republican Party nominee.
The story of Mormon founder Joseph Smith’s “White Horse Prophecy” is a major piece in the discussion about a Mormon President of the United States. This tale has been debated, endorsed, denied and decried by various adherents and critics of the Mormon faith – in much the same manner that understandings of the Christian bible are hashed over and disputed by bible-believing Christians.
What do they both have in common? The debates rest on accountings of what was said or not said by Christ and Smith long after their deaths. And we are talking about people who never spoke to either personally – yet insist that they are recounting their words verbatim. In the case of the White Horse Prophecy, it is a familiar argument – that Joseph Smith is being misquoted in writings after his death when he predicts that a Mormon will save America as President of the United States on the heels of the U.S. Constitution hanging on by a mere thread. (Well-known Mormon, Glenn Beck loves to refer to this).
What are we to learn from this? That despite the denials and attempts to distance himself from these extreme ideologies, Romney is joined by far too many who really do adhere to these beliefs. This is important to all of us now because Romney’s path, from a very young age, has all the earmarks of someone who was raised believing in this religio-political doctrine. And despite his protests and repeated attempts to avoid the discussion, this man appears to be on a spiritually led mission to fulfill what he has been told is his destiny.
White Horse Prophecy
by Susan Cardoza
What is the White Horse Prophecy and is it important in the presidential race of 2012 or does it mean nothing at all? I will explore the prophecy and then you can decide for yourself. The White Horse Prophecy is a statement purported to have been made in 1843 by Joseph Smith, Jr., founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, regarding the future of the Latter Day Saints (Mormons) and the United States of America.
The Latter Day Saints, according to the prophecy, will “go to the Rocky Mountains and … be a great and mighty people”, which is identified figuratively with the White Horse described in the Revelation of John. The prophecy further predicts that the United States Constitution will one day “hang like a thread” and will be saved “by the efforts of the White Horse”. ~ Wikipedia
So is the Mormon Church the White Horse or is the candidate the White Horse? I don’t really think the differentiation matters all that much, the fact is that it has been said that if a Mormon ever reaches the White House, they will take their orders from the Church in Salt Lake City. The Church has been known to elicit a stronghold on its’ members and a 7th generation Mormon like Romney has proven, in the past, to take very seriously the teachings of his church.
Writers of varying degrees of credibility and motive have speculated, on the basis of the prophecy, that Mormons expect the U.S. to eventually become a “Mormon-ruled theocracy divinely ordained to ‘not only direct the political affairs of the Mormon community, but eventually those of the United States and ultimately the world’”, and that “a Mormon, if he were elected president, would take his orders from Salt Lake City.”
In addition, many LDS members of the Republican Party and some LDS Democrats have also been inspired to run for office as a direct result of the White Horse Prophecy. As is referred to below, Michael Moody ran for Governor of Nevada in 1982 and made statements to the effect he was doing so to help Mitt Romney in the future. That would have been 9 years after Romney graduated from college and he would have been around 32 or 33.
The authenticity of the prophecy as a whole, which was not made public until long after Smith’s death, is debated, and the leadership of the LDS Church has stated that “the so-called ‘White Horse Prophecy’ … is not embraced as Church doctrine.” However, the belief that members of the LDS Church will one day need to take action to save the imperiled U.S. Constitution has been attributed to Smith in several sources and has been discussed in an approving fashion by Brigham Young and other LDS leaders. In fact, Congress member Orrin Hatch alluded to this belief when he was a candidate for president.
From the JOD{journal of discourses}:
“The Saints Will Yet Save the Constitution-When the day comes in which the Kingdom of God will bear rule, the flag of the United States will proudly flutter unsullied on the flagstaff of liberty and equal rights, without a spot to sully its fair surface; the glorious flag our fathers have bequeathed to us will then be unfurled to the breeze by those who have power to hoist it aloft and defend its sanctity. (JOD 2:317).”
“How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass. 12:204.”
“The Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith there would be an attempt to overthrow the country by destroying the Constitution. Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time “this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction” (Journal of Discourses, 7:15). It is my conviction that the elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation, will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.”
“If the Gentiles on this land reject the word of God and conspire to overthrow liberty and the Constitution, their doom is fixed, and they “shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant” (1 Nephi 14:6; 3 Nephi 21:11, 14, 21; D&C 84:114-15, 117). (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 618-619 & God, Family, Country, p. 345.)”
Perhaps, like the Bible, Mormons would say there are many translations for these entries. However, I think they are fairly clear that LDS think they are going to be in a position to save this country and if Proposition 8 in California is any indication of their determination and influence, they will pour funds in to a campaign in order to affect the outcome.
We must also consider that Mitt Romney has not only lied continuously, but he has flip-flopped all over the place and it would not be beyond the pale for him to lie about his beliefs in the White Horse Prophecy as well. What would it gain him to actually tell the truth? Certainly not a smart move with Dominionists who may have to hold their noses and vote for him as we know they believe they are the chosen ones for the job – not someone from what they consider to be the faux cult-religion of Mormonism.
Consider this, when Mitt Romney received his patriarchal blessing as a Michigan teenager, he was told that the Lord expected great things from him. All young Mormon men receive such a blessing as they embark on their requisite journeys as religious missionaries. Understanding the beliefs of Mormons helps us to tie all of this together and more clearly understand these significant rights of passage that young Mitt scaled. At 19 years of age, the youngest son of the most prominent Mormon in American politics, a seventh-generation direct descendant of one of the faith’s founding 12 apostles in the Mormon heirarchy, Mitt Romney had been singled out as a destined leader.
A patriarchal blessing is a blessing (similar to a prayer) given to worthy members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by a stake patriarch (a priesthood holder ordained to this calling) and is a sacred, personal blessing from the Lord. Members who are worthy and ready may receive their patriarchal blessing by first meeting with their bishop, and once approved by the bishop they make an appointment with their stake patriarch. The blessing given (said) by the patriarch is recorded and later typed up (usually by the patriarch’s wife) and is sent to LDS Church headquarters where it is kept on file. A printed copy of the patriarchal blessing is also mailed to the recipient.
Upon completion of his foreign mission, he immersed himself in the 1970 senatorial campaign of his mother, Lenore Romney, who was running against Phillip Hart in the Michigan general election. That same year, the Cougar Club, the all male social club at Brigham Young University, was humming with talk that its president, Mitt Romney, would become the first Mormon president of the United States. “If not Mitt, then who?” was the ubiquitous slogan within the elite organization. The pious world of BYU was expected to spawn the man who would lead the Mormons into the White House and fulfill the prophecies of the church’s founder, Joseph Smith Jr. Even from this early date, Mitt Romney has avidly sought to realize this prophesy/expectation.
At BYU, he was idolized by fellow students and referred to, only half jokingly, as the “One Mighty and Strong.” He was the “alpha male” in the rarefied Cougar pack, according to Michael D. Moody, a BYU classmate and fellow member of the group. Romney, who had been the assistant to the president of the French Mission where he was personally in charge of more than 200 missionaries, easily assumed a leadership position in the club.
So one can see how it seemed disingenuous to his former club-mates when, in a 2006 magazine interview, Romney denied his longtime political aspirations. “I have to admit I did not think I was going to be in politics,” he told the American Spectator. “Had I thought politics was in my future, I would not have chosen Massachusetts as the state of my residence. I would have stayed in Michigan where my Dad’s name was golden.” (Or you could surmise making millions at an LBO firm would put him in the best position to take time off to run for that position). Romney is a shallow man and he would probably not understand that others would look at his plans as anything other than a man trying to make a living.
Contrary to this lack of interest in political aspirations, Michael Moody, a fellow Cougar member, says political success was an institutional value of the LDS church.
“The instructions in my
Fast Tube by Casper blessing, which I believed came directly from Jesus, motivated me to seek a career in government and politics,” he wrote in his 2008 book.
Moody recently said that he ran for governor of Nevada in 1982 because he felt he had been divinely directed to “expand our kingdom” and help Romney “lead the world into the Millennium. Once a firm believer but now a church critic, Moody was indoctrinated with the White Horse Prophecy. Like Romney, Moody is a seventh-generation Mormon, steeped in the same intellectual and theological milieu.
“We were taught that America is the Promised Land,” he said in an interview. “The Mormons are the Chosen People. And the time is now for a Mormon leader to usher in the second coming of Christ and install the political Kingdom of God in Washington, D.C.”
Mormonism defines not only Mitt Romney’s character, but what kind of president he would be and what impulses would drive him in both domestic and foreign policy. Like his father before him, Romney has charted a course from missionary to businessman, from church bishop to politician, to presidential candidate. The influence that Mormonism has had on him has dominated his decisions every step of the way.
The Mormon Church is one of the world’s richest institutions, a multi-billion dollar business empire that includes agribusiness, mining, insurance, electronic and print media, manufacturing, movie production, commercial real estate, defense contracting, retail stores and banking, and oil. The Mormon church has unprecedented economic and political power.
This picture to the left is the Hawaii Temple on Oahu and is typical of the lavish design all their temples, most topped with actual gold statues. Despite their beliefs against any act or tolerance of gambling, Mormons have been heavily invested and exceptionally influential in the Nevada gaming industry since the great expansion of modern Las Vegas in the 1950s. Numerous examples of this type of hypocrisy abound.
Mormons have long been recruited into top positions in government agencies and multinational corporations, likely because of their strong adherance to the prohibition of liquor, tobacco and other vices. They are prominent in such institutions as the CIA, FBI and the national nuclear weapons laboratories, giving the church a sphere of influence rivaling political Christianity’s 7 Mountains Mandate with significant gains in the top echelons of government and business.
Mitt Romney has been groomed all along for a prominent position in the church; first as a missionary, then as a bishop, and then as a stake president, becoming the highest-ranking Mormon leader in Boston, the equivalent of a cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church.
Mormonism’s founding theology was based upon a literal takeover of the U.S. government. In light of the theology and prophecies of the Church, not amended by the LDS hierarchy, it would seem that the office of the American presidency is the ultimate ecclesiastical position to which a Mormon leader might aspire. Given all that we are learning the question remains, does Romney believes that the American presidency is also a theological position?
Romney is uncomfortable and has said he will not discuss his religion on the campaign trail as he claims, rightly so, that religion is not a constitutional requirement for office of the President. So, perhaps, the question is whether, based on all of the flip-flops on virtually every policy, he has an underlying religious conception of the presidency and the American government but is fearful of talking about it as it could lead him to divulge information he does not want the public to know.
We do know that at the GOP presidential debate in Florida, Romney claimed the Declaration of Independence is a theological document, not specific to the rebellious 13 colonies, but establishing a covenant “between God and man.” This in and of itself would suggest that Mitt Romney views the American presidency as a theological office.
Whether or not the whispers are true about the White Horse Prophecy, it does bear investigation. All too frequently, known members of religious sects have not been candid when confronted with certain aspects of either their doctrine or statements they may have made when they thought no one was looking. All I can say is I do not want to be in a position to find out if it is true or not – after the fact. It is so clear that Romney is not a person who should be trusted with the highest office in this land by virtue of his propensity to flip his position on any and all issues to garner votes. Winning, at any cost, is the primary goal.
However, when you look at the total man, for me, it only gets worse. Given the ease with which he lies, what credibility would he have with world leaders? What would he do with Congress? But most important of all, what would he do with the American people? We already had a George W. Bush, we do not need another Liar in Chief.
(Just a side note, I am not sure if this is very well known but a little tidbit of trivia here, Huntsman and Romney are cousins).
Mitt Romney in a presentation to students at Harvard Business School in 1978: “Your children don’t pay any evidence of achievement for 20 years,” Mr. Romney said. But if students failed to invest sufficient time and energy in their spouses and children, their families could become “dogs” — consultant-speak for drags on the rest of the company — sucking energy, time and happiness out of the students. The presentation was a hit: Mr. Romney had proved the value of family-time based not on emotion but on yield.
Michael Moody to Romney in his new book, Mitt, Set Our People Free, Moody States:
“Either you see it or you don’t, and since you still don’t see it, I can’t quietly stand aside and watch you march into the American Presidency with your ankle chained to Joseph Smith.
The White House must not be controlled by a man who believes in a phantom ancient culture, believes the fictitious Book of Mormon the most correct book on earth and who reveres Joseph Smith as a Christian prophet. Your political success would advance the Mormon cult kingdom, and that’s unacceptable. Not on my watch!”
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Admin Notes: Susan’s article has revealed more about political indoctrination of its members by the Mormon Church than most people have ever heard of before. The teachings are available and you will find all of this and more in a cursory research. Here are a couple articles that might be of interest: The N.Y. Times, Al Jazeera, for more in-depth articles that give you insight into the world Willard M. Romney was reared.
Since there WAS no “White Horse” prophecy, Mitt can flip flop on it all day long and it won’t matter. The “Constitution will hang by a thread” quote has been verified but it does not refer to any white horse.
What color is Mitt’s Missouri Fox Trotter? He might be milking this myth. He needs all the help he can get since he is such a clueless robot. His claim to fame is that he was a successful vulture capitalist. Oooh good. Just what the country needs when it is in distress. Someone who strips out all the assets and then lets the shell die. He will finish off what the GOP has been doing since Reagan. Lower the taxes, kill the government and let the rich just eat drink and be carefree.
Willard Mitt Romney Birthers are on the loose! I can’t tell if they’re serious or not. But I can’t help but chuckle.
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I think it is funny that the fundamentalist may get a religious president taking marching orders from Utah??
Not the Southern Baptist Convention or from the leaders of Dominionism!
They may get what they were praying for, just the wrong religion!!
Do you think the hard core Evangelicals will vote for Romney? And will the Mormons push this symbolism knowing it will flip the religious right out?
Excellent question…I am depending on the Dominionists to be repelled by the idea of voting for Mormon. Most people do not understand Mormonism and the far right religious leaders do everything they can to drive a bigger and bigger wedge between Mormons and “true” Christians – when they all believe in Jesus Christ. I am writing a post about this today. It is going to be a real cat fight.
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It looks like we have our own Christian version of the Sunni and Shia. A world-wide race between dumb and dumber… what a waste. I use to think there might be a magic key to stick in somebody’s head, turn it and the light would go on and they would be able to pull their head from their ass. That was a nice fantasy. Another view, some people had, was to kill everyone that you didn’t like and all that would be left were cool people… the twist on that line of thought was, that’s what the nut jobs want to do… no help there.
I think what Leah, Susan and other like-minded intellectuals are doing is the best, short of someone coming up with the magic key. Shining a light on what’s happening and educating is the only way to free the cranium from its current residence and help people to see that there is a better life to be had, than the cycle of superstitious cruelty. I’m going to try and recruit at least one friend to join supporting this site. I think that is something that all readers could do as a way of putting our shoulder to the wheel and contributing to the light shining and education needed to get to a better life. Every little bit adds up
There is an excellent article in Salon about Romney & the White Horse Prophecy that I have been sharing as frequently as possible where ever an article on Willard appears. I’ll add this excellent article to the list of links shared & I’m hoping the rest of you do the same. I’ve had mostly positive comments back asking me to continue to share this information, with a couple of exceptions from Mormons who seem to be sincerely in the dark about what their hierarchy does. They have been mostly polite, unlike the Dominionists who spew nothing but hatred.
Thanks for addressing this Leah & Susan! Because the Mormons are solidly in stealth mode as Dominionists once were it makes them even more dangerous. We must get the information out there to as broad an audience as we can.
Oops, forgot to include the Salon link. Here tis:
http://www.salon.com/2012/01/29/mitt_and_the_white_horse_prophecy/
Yes, that’s right. It’s called “lying for the Lord”, and in principle it means that lying is justifiable if it furthers the progression of doing the “Lord’s work”.
It’s a kind of religious “the end justifies the means” cop-out.
Judging from the lying that Willard has systematically engaged in, and continues to engage in, throughout this campaign, he seems to be taking to it like a duck to water.
Steve Benen, formerly with the Washington Monthly, and now with Maddow Blog, has been documenting his trail of mendacity for weeks. You can find the details at this link.
Thank you for this link! And yes, it truly is an ends justifies the means. All these sects have more in common than not.
Romney seems to have the lyin’ for the lord thing down. One of the reservations held by other conservative Christian sects with regards to a Romney presidency is their concern that Romney will be taking orders from the head of the Mormon church. The irony of the situation is that it isn’t necessary for Romney to take orders from the church – he already knows them. He has been groomed for this event for decades. He will be able to answer those that question him about it with 100% honesty that he is not taking orders from the church. He’s part of it.
Kind of like saying that if Romney is in the White House he is going to take orders from the 1%. Pffft! He IS the 1%!
If we want to be hard-nosed about this, we ought to look into any written evidence that Romney’s relative moderation (for a Republican) as Massachusetts governor was a ploy due to his belief in the prophecy. But I myself am skeptical that Romney believes in such things. If he had a 666 on his scalp, he would have long ago distanced himself from the financial services industry and gone the populist route because it was the obvious marketing niche for a presidential run. Besides, his father seems to have been a modern and rational man and it’s unlikely that Mitt would go all 19th Century without there being some telltale signs of a far-right conversion (like W’s recovery from alcoholism and being targeted by Texan evangelicals, or Tony Blair’s increasingly bizarre remarks about Christianity while in office, secretly planning to convert to Catholicism once he retired).
I really want to lay into this guy after W turned out to be so much worse than seemed possible, but then I have to look at how much worse than that Santorum and Gingrich are, psychopaths who might literally march America into the Apocalypse to justify martial law and an honest overthrow of the Constitution. It’s much more relevant, at this moment in America’s rape by the oligarchy, to hate on Mitt the Multi-Millionaire than on Mitt the Mormon.
There is actually little difference between Mormonism and dominionism, and I’d suggest that you read some of the websites by Mormon walkaways. There are “surface” differences (Book of Mormon, etc.), but where the rubber meets the road they’re alike – have to take over the world for their religion.
Dominionism is what drives Santorum and Gingrich (or one of the various flavors of dominionism) and KatzKids comments about being in stealth mode are right on target here. Plus I’d add that it was a common non-Mormon complaint that the Mormons would exploit and charge non-Mormons more for the same products and services if they could get away with it* (something my parents complained about and I’ve heard from others)… and I’m pretty sure (like with dominionism) wealth is a goal of their religion.
People often think that the politicians and leaders of dominionism don’t believe what they preach. Maybe that’s true in some cases, but more DO believe what they say, even in the face of pure evidence to the contrary. It’s all part of the worldview and brainwashing that is connected to groups like that (cult is a very accurate and appropriate word). Plus I’ve noted that at least one of the walkaways I’ve read the website of indicated that this flip-flopping and changing stories seems to be one of the hallmarks of Mormonism… and I’ve got to say I don’t remember that being the case with the dominionists. I’m pretty certain that Romney DOES believe, and his actions flow from his beliefs.
(I’d bet that the companies he destroyed in making his millions were all non-Mormon, and that would go hand-in-hand with their dislike and disdain for non-Mormons.)
*- After thinking for a minute, I realize that I’ve never seen that behavior from dominionists… they charge the same to everyone. That much I can say in their favor.
I, too, believe wealth is the goal of their religion. Biblical references to things like wealth, riches, blessings etc. are interpreted by Mormons to be literal and physical – some outer evidence of their righteousness. They cannot grasp the more esoteric concept that perhaps Jesus meant something just a little bit more. I guess it depends on what you worship as god.
An example might be the $5billion theme park The Church just opened up downtown known as City Creek Center. While some other religious sect might think to throw away their spare $5 billion doing things like maybe helping the poor or something, the Mormons decided that their god would best be served by building a mall. With million dollar luxury condos, fountains, an artificial creek running through it and a Tiffany’s too. Homeless people and their kind are not allowed on the premises, so the blessed will not have to be forced to co-mingle with the unblessed. And in keeping with Mormon principles, no coffee or alcohol will be served.
Jesus chased the money changers out of the temple, the Mormons have them set up just across the street.
http://www.exmormon.org/ This site is written by people who have left the Mormon church. It is full of information about the theology and worship of the church. They also have articles on how the “theology and worship” have changed. Also anything written by Steve Benson on the subject. Steve, in addition to being a wonderful political cartoonist, is a grandchild of Ezra Taft Benson (head prophet in his day). Steve was raised Mormon, also a legacy family. He has personally talked with many of the senior officials of the church. Steve is not a Mormon any longer.
Thank you, Elizabeth! I have visited that site but I appreciate the background information on Steve Benson…that is very helpful!
I could comment on my own personal reasons to oppose the Mormon church, as when I was a little boy, I lived in Utah (and had flashbacks to some of my experiences while living there only a few years back). However, I would rather comment on some of their racist beliefs and hypocrisy.
Their teachings regarding Native Americans seem to have changed… from my ancestors being the descendants of a lost tribe of Israel (completely and thoroughly disproved), to at some time there being a lost tribe living here and my ancestors wiped them out (no evidence for a previous Hebraic civilization, while there is evidence of us continuously living here for many thousands of years and the fact is, Native Americans were statistically less violent than other groups), to possibly a third such story. I’m not sure what the latest is, but like the dominionists, they grasp at any lie or distortion or changed story to “Prove” their religion. Their beliefs about Native Americans and the settling of this continent has been a subject in a class on false archaeology that I helped teach… and we had a Mormon student who not only lied, but tried his best to deny science. (I had a ferocious flashback to one horrific incident in my life connected to the Mormons, and had to turn the class over to a colleague.) The discussion got quite heated before I left, with accusations of anti-Mormonism and anti-Mormon bigotry because we insisted on evidence to support their claims and not quotes from the book of Mormon.
They also claimed in years past (and I heard this claim when I was a young teen) that African Americans were cursed by God and that was why their skin was black (and thus could not serve in the church). If the curse was lifted, they would be turned white and THEN could serve. The claim went through some changes since then, and I guess the bad publicity got that group to reverse their doctrine. Up into the 70s, however, African Americans could not serve or rise in rank in their church, and even had some sort of problems in the boy scouts.
On hypocrisy… I read an article regarding a form of archaeology called “garbology” a few years ago, and one of the points was that while they claimed to be teetotalers, the evidence in their garbage said otherwise. That’s just one example.
Romney’s actions fall right in line with what others have said about that church (and not just dominionists and fundamentalists). They are supposed to have an “out” for lying, because the liar is lying for God and that somehow makes it right. I don’t know all the details of that, but we’ve heard of that before – “heavenly deception” and of course the lies the dominionists tell and print all the time.
IMO, if we can expose this “prophesy” about the White Horse to the dominionists, it will cost him their votes. We NEED to get this information to the public, as well as the depth of deception practiced by them (they’re not much different than the dominionists in that respect). What strikes me is that Mormonism and Dominionism almost seem to be like mirror images in some ways… have others noted that?
I agree. I had the same thought that making the connection for political Christians, aka Dominionists, will most definitely repel some of them from being capable of holding their nose and voting for Romney under any circumstance. Look for more on this…
Without question, what ever they call themselves they are extremist in their views and they arrogantly appoint/anoint themselves as the “chosen”, “elect” and that they alone are charged with saving the rest of us from ourselves. This is far from the lessons of humility and humbleness that Jesus taught.
Hi Leah,
Great article. I’m very interested in their teachings and agree with you and others that this religion seems very similar to the evangelicals in terms of being extremists. My mother is an evangelical, so I asked her about voting for Romney and she said she would not vote for him and would probably not vote at all. I’m hoping this will be the prevailing trend. I asked to her to poll other church friends to what their feelings are about Romney. I will report back what she tells me. My mother is the only gauge I have to what the evangelicals are thinking and plotting. I do challenge her beliefs quite often but good ol’ boy Pat Robertson always sets me back with her. She is very simple in her thinking which is why she is so easily taken in by these types as well as other scams. I have instructed her to never give money to anyone without consulting with me first. Fortunately, she is very frugal so they have a hard time getting much from her tightly held purse strings. I laugh at that. Thanks for your dedication to this topic.
footnote for clarification:
When the term “gentile” is used by Mormons, it is necessary to bear in mind that they are not referring to non-jews. Mormons believe they are descendants of an ancient tribe of Israel and are the TRUE “Chosen People” – not the jews. When a Mormon uses the term “gentile” they are referring to non-mormons, not non-jews. In Salt Lake City (where I live), Jews are actually gentiles. Some Jews find this most annoying.
Thank you for contributing that clarification. I welcome information that adds to the discussion and teaches us all.
I know the term well and what it means. When I was a little boy and living in Brigham City, Utah, I was invited along on a bike trip to a park by a group of Mormon youth, led by some adults (I don’t remember how many, but there were at least two or three). They balanced me on the handlebars of one of the bikes, and halfway there we hit a bump and my foot went into the spokes of the front wheel, causing me a bad injury and both of us went flying.
One of the adults picked me up, literally and physically threw me on the side of the road, said to me “You’re nothing but a gentile brat anyway” (they all looked angry and disgusted), and then left me there and went on their way. According to my parents, I crawled at least a quarter to half a mile along a busy Mormon road (with many cars passing me by), before a non-Mormon girl on horseback spotted me and gave me a ride home. I remember it all very clearly (I felt like I crawled for a long time, and then being really high on the back of this horse while held by this woman, and then not being able to play for it seemed like months because my foot was so damaged). That was the flashback I had which forced me to back away from the class discussion – and I remember the look in their eyes (all of them) when they told me I was “nothing but a gentile brat anyway” and how it sounded, especially the vicious way “gentile” sounded.
They HATED “gentiles” when we lived there, in the early 60s. You could be dying on the side of the road and if you were known to be a “gentile”, none would help.
I would bet that the Jews would find it annoying. I am surprised more Gentiles have not left Utah. I have never run into a mormon who really ticked me off but I have also not sought out the company of mormons either. We have two who live in our condo complex and they ride their bikes somewhere every single day.
Well, it’s been probably 47 or 48 years since I was last there (and I was a kid at the time), but it’s beautiful country and when my folks were there, there were some really good-paying jobs (defense industry, nuclear industry, and space jobs).
That being said, my folks WERE happy to move from that state.