We can’t make this sh*t up…but THEY certainly can – AND DO! Let me explain what I mean.
On the one hand, they claim that prayers don’t carry real power when they are confronted, engaged in levying imprecatory prayer against their perceived enemies. We covered this in our discussions about the commercialization of their “Pray for Obama – Psalm 109:8″ campaign. We also brought this up surrounding the Psalm 109 prayers against Mikey Weinstein and Reverend Barry Lynn by Klingenschimitt and Ammerman.
The rhetoric and actions of hate and violence rose to such a level that Weinstein was forced to file a law suit against Klingenschmitt and Ammerman to get them to stop. This law suit is being treated as absurd because after all K&A innocently claim that they are simply reading from scripture and are not placing real stock in the power of those verses, therefore Weinstein is over reacting and trying to squelch their freedom of speech.
YET…on the OTHER hand…they gather together as in this “Prayercast” in Washington, D.C. on December 16th, and claim that the power of prayer will save this country. Orchestrated by Tony Perkins (of the Family Research Council and organizer of the Values Voters Summit) and hilighting the wailing wall rocker Lou Engle (of The Call) numerous politicians assembled to pray…and here is how the Family Research Council touted this event…
WASHINGTON, D.C. – Tonight, Wednesday, December 16, 2009 at 8:30 pm ET, Family Research Council Action, The Call to Conscience and Focus on the Family Action will host a special one hour webcast that will mobilize thousands of Christians and churches to join in corporate prayer over the health care overhaul bill. Family Research Council Action President Tony Perkins will be joined by Congressional leaders, prominent pastors, and policy experts to discuss and pray over significant concerns within the bill that will have far reaching consequences for the Christian community and our society.
“Life and death hinges on the Senate health care bill. We face significant threats to the God-given right to human life through government funding of abortions, our health from rationing, our family finances from higher taxes, and our general freedoms posed by the government plan to take over health care. There have been a number of critical hours in American history. Our nation has struggled mightily and, under God, always risen to the challenges before us. Tonight, we will face this moral crisis by taking action and obeying the Biblical mandate to pray for our nation and its leaders.”
~ Tony Perkins, FRC Action President
“But the Bible’s very clear that prayer affects government,” said Engle. “Esther’s three-day fast changed public policy; Daniel’s fast changed public policy; and it’s the same, yesterday, today and forever, and that’s why we’re here.” ~ Lou Engle, The Call
“I just pray that You will frustrate the plans of the Evil One, and revive us again with conviction and forgiveness. Show us how we can further your cause, Lord and advance your kingdom, and we will be careful to give you the praise. Just begin a revival in our hearts that will restore us as one nation under God.” ~ (Retired [whatev]) James Dobson
And let’s take a gander at a partial list of who was in attendance (whether electronically or in person) endorsong this trashing of separation of church & state:
Tony Perkins, President, Family Research Council ActionLou Engle, Founder and President, The Call to ConscienceJim Daly, President, Focus on the Family ActionDr. James Dobson, Founder, Focus on the Family ActionShirley Dobson, National Day of Prayer Task Force ChairmanHon. Sam Brownback, United States Senator, KansasHon. Jim DeMint, United States Senator, South CarolinaHon. Randy Forbes, United States House of Representatives, VirginiaHon. Michele Bachmann, United States House of Representatives, MinnesotaBishop Harry Jackson, President, High Impact Leadership CoalitionPastor Jim Garlow, Skyline Church, San Diego, Calif.Reverend Samuel Rodriguez, President, National Hispanic Leadership ConferenceTony Perkins, President, Family Research Council Action
Lou Engle, Founder and President, The Call to Conscience
Jim Daly, President, Focus on the Family Action
Dr. James Dobson, Founder, Focus on the Family Action
Shirley Dobson, National Day of Prayer Task Force Chairman
Hon. Sam Brownback, United States Senator, Kansas
Hon. Jim DeMint, United States Senator, South Carolina
Hon. Randy Forbes, United States House of Representatives, Virginia
Hon. Michele Bachmann, United States House of Representatives, Minnesota
Bishop Harry Jackson, President, High Impact Leadership Coalition
Pastor Jim Garlow, Skyline Church, San Diego, Calif.
Reverend Samuel Rodriguez, President, National Hispanic Leadership Conference
…AND just sum things up…
Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) and Sen. Sam Brownback (R-KS) also appeared, and DeMint asked for God to change the Democratic Senators’ minds. “Whether they’ve been mesmerized by the president or just convinced somehow in their own heart,” said DeMint, “we just need to pray that God’ll channel their hearts to realize that the exceptional nature of this country did not come from government control of everything, but from limited government, and a free people with Judeo-Christian principles, that created the character and integrity that made this country work.”
The event ended with a 30-minute continuous prayer by various speakers. “Give kings sleepless nights across America,” Engle implored passionately. “Lord, break into their hearts while they sleep tonight.”
Lord!…these people are effin’ freaks! So what is it? You tell me.
Then I have this GEM of an offering by Oral Roberts his-own-self. What a twisted “man-of-god”…
That is for tomorrow….I am getting myself to wound up…sanctimony…that’s ALL I’m sayin’…
Here is my problem in all of this 1. No one is praying (like Jesus did) not my will, but your (God)will be done. Their prayer is all about what they want. 2. All this underground church and gas prices going up and down – God would not be that hard to reach nor does He get all that involved in free will (Gas Prices). I believe are children of God. But I believe many of the are like the stiff necked men that killed Christ. They say they are working in the name of the Lord, but truly they have missed what Christ was all about. Love, mercy, grace, respect. In all that Christ did he NEVER spread anger and hate to justify His cause/purpose. 3. You can separate the nation from the church, but you can never separate God from man (the nation). I am gay so these people would have me thinking I am going to burn in hell. But, I know in my heart God is real, His love is real and He loves me gay or straight. God has called me (us) to spread his word of love and salvation. Not this other nonsense that is causing confusion even among the saints.
I couldn't agree with you more! In fact, I am responding to this hate mail with precisely that message….that true followers of Christ understand his teachings of kindness, compassion and acceptance of ALL God's children regardless of gender, color, straight or gay. These people are devout and hating is easy. It takes so much more effort to accept others for who they are and demonstrate tolerance, let alone critically think about one's place in this community of humans. These people are cowards and lazy. Blaming others is always a lazy man's game.
Leah, there is one group that these people like and respect and that is Israel. I came across the following letter written by a Rabbi to Sen Lieberman.. I think it is well-written and I am going to send it far and wide. It's probably too long for one post so I will post the rest below.
————————————————————-
Senator Joseph Lieberman
United States Senate
Senator:
We are rabbis, cantors, and other committed Jews. Many of us were delighted in 2000 when you were nominated for Vice-President and proclaimed to all that you were an observant Jew, carrying into the highest level of public service the values of the Jewish people.
Now we see with deep distress that you have announced that you will not support the bill before the Senate to bring health care in America even part way toward the universal and affordable coverage that is assumed in every other industrial country, including Israel. You have announced that you intend to join a quasi-filibuster against even taking an up-and-down vote on the bill if it contains either a "public option" provision or one extending the universally praised Medicare system to some younger people.
Doing this would thwart the will of a majority of the Senate, the majority of the American people, and the majority of the American Jewish community.
In our eyes, this is not the behavior of an "observant" Jew. "Tzedek tzedek tirdof, justice justice shall you seek," is among the Torah's most important commandments. And in pursuit of justice, no autonomous Jewish community has ever allowed the poor to go without healing. It is clear that the present health insurance system based on private insurance companies is broken in every aspect except assuring enormous profits to itself. It costs Americans the highest medical costs in the world while providing mediocre health care as measured by life expectancies, newborn death rates, and other indices across the developed world.
We recognize that major health insurance companies are headquartered in Connecticut and that you may view your obligations to them as constituents as an important political responsibility. Yet thousands of Americans die each year unnecessarily because they are refused coverage by or are unable to purchase insurance from these same companies.
So we believe your obligation of pekuach nefesh, saving life, saving the lives of the flesh-and-blood citizens of Connecticut, shaped in flesh and blood in God's Image and subject to damage of that same flesh and blood that requires healing, is an even higher obligation than you owe to your insurance-company constituents. Indeed, two-thirds of your flesh-and-blood constituents support a health-care bill that includes a strong public option.
We therefore call you to do tshuvah – to turn yourself again toward fulfilling the commands of Torah and meeting the needs of the American people. Then we will be happy once again that you are bringing the values of an "observant Jew" to the public service of the American people.
That is indeed a powerful letter…and Joe's response will reveal his dedication to his faith. When forced to chose between power and wealth or faith…isn't it remarkable how many of these "devout" religious men and women chose power and wealth? Thank you for posting that here…(and I am surprised that you were able to do so successfully as long as it is).
The evangelical right is interested in Israel only in so far as they fit into their 'end of the world' scenario. They definitely do not respect Israel, or they wouldn't have such an all out campaign to convert every Jew they can lay their grubby little hands on. It's a very complicated relationship as the 'c'hristian community is in the process of switching from premillennial to postmillennial positions. While some factions do seem to care deeply about the Jewish nation, others are outright anti-semitic. Most are only interested in how the world's Jews and the nation of Israel affect their millennial world view.
We all know his motivation is greed same for Nelson he was against a public option too. Typical for Republicans, no end to the amount of money they think they deserve, why these two don't go ahead and change parties I don't know. So sad Lie berman's support for his own religion is fake too, like Palin he seems to delight in pissing people off for his own gain. They don't care if they are hated by 90% of the people. Even so please do send this all over, at least people can vow not to vote for them, who knows maybe someone will try to change the law in Connecticut to have him recalled. People need to be bold against them with just the facts, no need to lie like they do. You should send this to Whitehouse.gov, post it on his and $P facebook pages. Thanks for the find and the commitment to expose the truth for the good of the people. Take care.
These people need a 13 step group and some forced intervention. I remember the group here where I am praying for gas prices to go down and they said they wouldn't stop until they got down to 1.25. They kept this up, taking credit for each drop in prices. The moment gas started to climb again (without having ever reached Jesus' apparent goal) they quietly dropped the subject.
It's a Show! A really big Show! It was more authentic when they traveled and set up their massive tents. Now people apply a false sense of legitimacy to them in the massive multi-million dollar complexes they set up to "serve God". Give me a break!
Within seconds, I was surrounded by a bunch of radical christians, calling me a "heathon" and telling me Christmas was about Christ and not Budda. I tried to politely make my way passed these fools, chanting that I need to pray for my immortal soul, accept Jesus as my personal savior….I was waiting for one to dare put a finger on me or directly block my way, but they were too cowardly. At no time did I confront them, all I wanted to do was make it to my car and get home., but if they tried, believe me, someone would be in the hospital having a statue of buddah being surgiclally extracted from their bowels. What makes them think their prayers can change me and what's in my heart?
You did the right thing by not engaging with them…they are truly brainwashed and you cannot reason with anyone that indoctrinated. Happy Holidays my friend…
Thanks, Leah! It was just one of those presents that fit the person perfectly. It's such a relaxing and peaceful oasis, and being invited to their house is always a pleasure and and honor.
Thanks for all you do on your blog, I always learn something new.
Happiest of Holidays, Healh and Prosperity in the New Year!
This may be off topic, but it's something that illustrates how sick these people truly are. I have a gardening friend who collects statues of different iterations of Buddah from several cultures. I was in a Home Goods store at a mall, and directly next to this store, was a street preacher praising Target for having a "Merry Christmas" sign in their window .
I found a rather large Budda from Tailand, one that I recalled my friend had been looking for, and purchased it as a gift. They didn't have a bag large enough, so they placed a "paid" sticker on it.
The preacher decided to make an example of me, damning my soul to hell for worshipping a false idol.
Oh, that is not off topic…just sad. How they justify their self-righteous superiority and actually feel that it is their place to judge others always astonishes me.
I'd have asked him about all the little plastic Jesus idols in yards across America
I never think of the right thing to say right there and then, but you're right, the plastic Jesus phenominon is a form of idolitry.
These people have no understanding of their faith. For example, a news story today illustrated the inability to connect the basic of dots. A man was trying to create a lawn display to convey his opinion that Christmas had become too commercialized because his church apparently believes society is making war on Christmas. Using that mentality, he created a scene that got the whole neighborhood in an uproar and he could not understand why.
He had a Santa Claus figure laid out flat on his back in his front lawn. Standing above him was a figure of Jesus holding a shotgun. The message was that Jesus would defend Christmas at all costs. Yeah, right.
That he would think it was fine to have Jesus shooting a gun is so bizarre and so alien to the faith (at least everything I have ever heard, read or been taught about Christianity)
He was all bent out of shape and totally amazed that his neighbors lodged complaints about his display. Some were about the affect on children, others about the aberrant interpretation of the teachings of Jesus. He just didn't get it. He thought he was defending the faith. Gees.
It is truly unbelievable how they have bastardized Christianity and they know no bounds. As long as they claim it is in the name of JEEsus…truly despicable!
It does not surprise me! We are Sooo in trouble!
I meant opposite sex
Yes it is sickening they are praying in public for God to turn his back on the middle and poor class in America, and keep the rich and powerful insurances companies in control. They are always praying for Gods will, but when things don't go as they prayed for they don't accept it as Gods will, because they are always praying for their will to be done. Amazing how they lie so freely too, I am sick of these money grubbing, power hungry people. I think most of them really don't believe in God at all, like Focus On The Family, Palin, etc. or they would be afraid for their soul for using God for their own gain. They condemn who they pick and chose but the Bible says if you divorce and remarry you are committing adultery, but that seems to be fine by them they don't call to deny them their rights or keep people of the same sex from getting married again.
They are marinated in hypocrisy! Their version of 'c'hristianity blames the poor for being poor, therefore they truly have a guilt-free lack of compassion toward the needy. In their world, you are suffering because you have forsaken Christ, and if you would simply convert, your troubles would fade away. The only time they cater to the needy is when they use the opportunity for proselytizing and conversion. Palin's trip to the Alaska village with Franklin Graham last winter is a perfect example of that.
They use the same tactics even after you convert. If you are broke, it's because you're not giving enough to God. If you're sick, it's because you're not holy enough or harboring some sin. These people are really sadistic. There's nothing so fun as kicking a dog when it's down.
Sounds like Scientology.
Speaking of the darnedest things…check this out.
I don't know how well this is going to paste into the message here, but here's a convo that happened in one of my chat rooms when I mentioned that link. (Mav is from Florida, Mord is from Canada, and uso is me.)
<Mavren> It's Virginia…it's snowed there before..
<Mavren> I don't get what it's trying to tell me…
<Mavren> Yeah it snowed… maybe global warming had something to do with it… how the fuck does the heath care bill come into it
<Mordiechu> they didn't blame the snow on the health care bill did they?
<~usotsuki> Yes
<Mavren> My brain hurts ,_,
<Mordiechu> And america expects the world to take it seriously AMIRITE.
I am embarrassed by how these fanatics have tarnished our image around the world…truly embarrassed.
The link doesn't work for me. I get 'page not found'
An HTML tag is combined with the address for some reason.
Can some brave 5th grader please step forward to teach these morons the difference between weather and climate?
Also, local and regional does not = global. Sheesh!
The more I read your posts and replies I have to wonder what people thought of me ? I was confident I was part of the only true way to Salvation,as I look back I suppose that was pretty arrogant to believe your one of the chosen.And most everybody else will be left out. I cringe a little thinking how gullible I expected others to be. I have to say there were many times I wondered why the main thrust of attention was on the Congregation(Sheperding) a practice I was involved in but unaware of its true nature.My thoughts on the Church working more on outreach were'nt too popular.The Needy,Drug and Alcohol problems I had no real support from the Pastor,whatever I did was pretty much on my own sometimes with the help of a Brother in law.(We were in the same group)Leah your right " They are marinated in Hypocrisy" a good anology .Thanks for your support your help in clearing the fog.
Tom, I understand, embarrassingly perhaps, what you mean by wondering "what people thought of me". When I was newly "born again", I sat myself down and wrote a letter to EVERY single person I knew (familial) about my conversion to the one and only truth. In retrospect, not one of the recipients of my good news letter felt a need to write me back having obviously formed their own conclusions about faith and religion. I don't know if they were just being patient, dismissive, or if they felt sorry for me. I have not written any of them (35 years later) a letter apologizing for my glaring conclusion about their lowly spiritual status in life and need for conversion to my more legitimate religious experience. It's truly humbling.
cri-de-coeur… maybe that is a letter waiting to be written… in the spirit of peace of mind? We all learn as we travel our Life Path, there are no exceptions. We all have drifted into brambles or cacti. Upon returning to what is right for our Way of Being, we may find it more difficult to forgive ourselves than it is to forgive others.
That letter has probably written itself in your head many times. Write it down, even you do not mail it. This may help lay it to rest… one way of another…
On this day before the Solstice, I wish you Love and Peace, Ing
You know Tom…my research and reading has caused me to seek deeper insights and understandings as well. It is exactly that aspect that you mention where people invested in this movement truly do feel superior and sit in judgement of the rest of us. And the rest of us is a pretty wide swath of the world's population! So yes, the arrogance is insulting to most people. Living by example should be core to the behavior of Christians…and the extreme fundies AND evangelicals clearly do not get that. Their example is doing more to repel people from Christianity as a whole.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen who look down their noses at the rest of the world because they are "right" with God and in their special place. Why? Because they get their "dance card" punched every Sunday as evidence of their faith? If you believe in God, I was taught that He is not just watching while you are in His house. Many of these extremists are representing a haughty side of human arrogance that is very unChrist-llike!
It's pretty sick – in all ways a cult. As you say, Leah – if you're poor its because you've turned your back on Christ and if you're not suffering, you don't really love him. These people revel in being miserable – it's no wonder they want everyone else to be miserable too.
These people obviously have have no clue what Psalm 109 actually says. They might learn that President Obama could pray “against” them with the first three verses, which say:
“1. Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise; 2. For the mouths of the wicked and the mouths of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue; 3. they have conspired against me with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.”
The Bible can be a real bitch when you decide to pick and choose Scripture to make your point. As has been said many times, even the devil can do that to suit his own purpose.
This is what I saw last night and that is probably why I couldn't sleep! I was totally shocked to see elected officials PRAYING FOR OUR XTIAN NATION. This nation was created with separation of church and state explicit in the early governing documents.
What do we do to fight back against this growing menace in our midst? . While I always accept every persons right to their beliefs, I now recognize that I have been uncomfortable with those who bring religion into activities that should be religion-free: work activities, social events, parties – I don't want to be saved by someone else! I don't want to have to smile nicely and try to change the subject or move away from the speaker, particularly when that person may have some power over me (ie: boss or supervisor). I don't want to decline invitations to church.
I'm not explaining myself well tonight; might be that lack of sleep. But I do know that this prayercast grossed me out and left me feeling very uncomfortable.
I think you explained yourself VERY well and I agree completely. Many of us on this blog have right wing family members who make us feel the same way. You don't want to be cornered by their spiel, but you can't always speak your mind or leave without some fear of retribution.
Take heart…truly. There is MUCH we can do, and I am working on this as we speak. I never mean to scare people without giving you all a sense that you really CAN do something. I am sorry. Bare with me. I am putting this all together. WE need to be scared shitless…but then know what to do with that fear and anger.
I am ON IT!! We truly can change this…hang in there.
Ah yes – creepy Lou Engle who said this:
"Right now they haven't seen the true church. There's an underground church that the world has no idea that exists. Once they get the stage, it's over with."
Traitors to the constitution, one and all!
As for those sitting members of Congress, they should be hauled into court for having given false testimony when they were sworn in!
They say underground church proudly.. further proof they want to bring all of us back with them as their slaves when they return to their prehistoric caves.
( Must.Stop.Now! I am way too cranky this early in the morning!)